Humanitie Summer 2008

Before the turn of the year I decided that this would be the Summer issue of Humanitie’s “Education Issue”. We would just have launched our own Humanism in Education campaign, founded on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, that “affirms the right of all children to an education that respects both their own cultural values and those of others”, and I thought that Alex Salmond would jump at the chance of giving us his views of this most important and fundamental of issues. How wrong I was. Despite many months of emails and telephone conversations with various civil servants, the answer continued to be that the First Minister was ‘too busy’. At one point the Press Office offered an interview with the Environment Minister instead – well it does begin with an ‘e’. After yet more unanswered calls and emails, Fiona Hyslop’s ‘people’ finally agreed that she would answer some questions “on behalf of the government but not on behalf of the SNP”.

If I had thought that experience was bad it was nothing compared to the Scottish Labour Party. I approached Rhona Brankin directly, through her constituency office and through her secretary. None of them answered an email or returned a phone call. Eventually it transpired that Rhona Brankin was ‘too busy’ to answer the questions, as were Scottish Labour’s press office. However, I would like to thank those who answered our questions willingly and understood the open nature of our enquiry.

And what about the answers? Well, there is cause for hope. There is some genuine support and enthusiasm for the Curriculum of Excellence, which the HSS supports. On the downside, some refuse to take responsibility and are keen to pass the buck to schools and local authorities.

But the big questions remain: why are Scotland’s two largest political parties so scared of the idea of educating our children together?  Why, when one of the Government’s stated aims is to create an inclusive society, has the First Minister declared his support for faith schools? And why, when even ‘Catholic’ Spain is moving bravely towards the establishment of a secular state, are Scottish politicians so afraid of ‘The S Word’?

For reasons of space, the answers in the magazine were edited but you can read the complete transcript here, debate the issue further in our forum or tell us what you think by writing to This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it so your letter may be published in the next issue. Either way, I look forward to reading your views.

• Scottish Government (SGovt) response from Fiona Hyslop, Education Secretary.
• Scottish Liberal Democrats (SLD) response from Jeremy Purvis, MSP.
• Scottish Green Party (SGP) response from Robin Harper, MSP.
• Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) response from Allan Armstrong.
• Scottish Conservatives (SC) response from Elizabeth Smith, MSP.
• Scottish Labour Party (SLP) no response

1.Do you think that schools should teach morality and ethics as a subject separate from religious instruction?

SGovt. Values and issues of morality are included in the draft experiences and outcomes for religious and moral education. There is potential for valuable links between these and other areas of the curriculum. Aspects of health and wellbeing provide opportunities for learning about moral dimensions in life, including relationships and moral and ethical issues are also likely to be raised through learning in science.

SLD. I believe that they should be part of the overall citizenship outcome for the Curriculum for Excellence.

SGP. I would rather answer this one the other way round. The Scottish Green Party does not believe there should be separate religious instruction classes in schools. What should replace them is an introduction to comparative religion, philosophy and ethics, encouraging young people to think about issues of morality in an objective fashion.

SSP. We do not believe that there should be specific religious instruction in schools. Religion should be a private matter, and the concern of the children’s parents, until they are of the age to make their own choices.
We want a secular public society within which there should be complete freedom of worship. However, the state or other public authorities should not give support to, or promote, religion or atheism.
Students should have the right to form specific religious societies in schools, just as they should have the right to form other societies. These would be purely voluntary and would not be funded by the school, although rooms could be made available for students to meet.
Morality and ethics should be dealt by the Personal and Social  Education and the Religious and Moral Education Departments.

SC. Morals and ethics straddle many subjects, including religion. They can sometimes be taught separately but usually it is important that they are taught in the context of the subject.

SLP. No comment.

2. The view of the Humanist Society of Scotland is that “a child is a guest in our house to be loved and respected but never possessed”. Do you support this view?

SGovt. Children are our future and the way we treat our children today will have a direct impact on the kind of society we live in tomorrow. Working from the foundation that all children deserve to be loved, respected and are not possessions is something the Scottish Government would support.

SLD. Legal requirements to protect the interest of the child are recommended especially when they are concerned with child protection – this could be perceived as possession but I think that is the wrong emphasis.

SGP. I have a great deal of sympathy with the Humanist Society’s positive views on children, and feel this position should apply both at home and everywhere else.

SSP. We would be uncomfortable with the notion of "our house", surely it is     "their house" as well, but we would certainly agree with the idea that a child is to be loved and respected but never possessed.

SC. This is not a manner of expression I would choose but I have no particularly strong objection to it.

SLP. No comment.

3. Do you believe that school assemblies should represent the diversity of our community and have regard to the equal rights of all, including the almost one third of Scots who hold no religious convictions?

SGovt. Scotland is a nation whose people hold a wide range of beliefs, from the branches of the Christian faith, to those who follow the world's other major religions and those whose beliefs lie outwith religious traditions. The Scottish Executive Education Department Circular 1/2005 provides guidance for local authorities in planning for religious observance in, for example, school assemblies. In recognition of Scotland's Christian heritage, the guidance encourages schools to use the rich resources of this tradition in planning religious observance but emphasises that the needs of those with other beliefs must be fully taken into account.
The new curriculum for religious and moral education will be flexible enough to enable schools to explore, debate and discuss different viewpoints reflective of and independent of any religious belief, values and practices and traditions.

SLD. Yes

SGP. School assemblies should respect the beliefs of all those in each individual school community including inspiration for those who hold no religious convictions.

SSP. At present school assemblies alienate many students.  This is certainly one area, where a student input should be introduced. However, with this proviso, we think that school assemblies draw on people from a wide variety of both internal and external sources – staff and students, and from the community beyond. Whilst specific religious representatives could be invited, this must be for wider educational purposes, not to proselytize. Concern should be taken to ensure a representative balance of both religious and non-religious speakers.

SC. Broadly yes, but it is a matter for the school.

SLP. No comment.

4. Will your party support the rights of parents who hold no religious convictions to have their children educated without the imposition of religious views and practices and how would you intend to achieve this?

SGovt. It is important that children and young people develop awareness that beliefs and values are a fundamental part of the fabric of society in communities, locally and globally. There is an intrinsic value in learning about religion in developing an understanding of diverse society. The skill of reflection, critical thinking, development of empathy and respect for the beliefs and values of others are crucial in assisting in this process. The Education (Scotland) Act 1980 makes provision for parents to withdraw pupils from religious education.

SLD. Parents should be able to allow their children to have an education free from religious institutions.

SGP. The Scottish Green Party already supports the rights of parents who wish their children to be educated without the imposition of religious views.

SSP. Certainly, as a transitional measure until all schools are truly secular.  We would be prepared to join any wider public campaign to achieve this. We would also campaign for the EIS (Scottish teaching union) to provide support.

SC. Generally yes, by facilitating a diverse system of schools in which parents have maximum choice.

SLP. No comment.

5. Does your party distinguish between the study of religions as part of the curriculum and religious practice and instruction (and/or daily prayers and/or religious assemblies and/or visits by religious representatives) and if so in what way?

SGovt. As stated, there is an intrinsic value in learning about religion in developing an understanding of diverse society. The draft experiences and outcomes for religious and moral education, which will be released on the Curriculum for Excellence website shortly, provide for this. Religious Observance is about promoting the spiritual development of all members of the school community and providing the opportunity to express and celebrate the share values of the school community. There should a clear distinction in assemblies devised for the purpose of religious observance and assemblies for other purposes such as celebrating success. The precise form of religious observance will be determined by each school’s policy within the local authority’s framework. In view of the wide diversity of beliefs and practices within the school community, acts of worship  are more appropriate to the informal curriculum as part of a range of practices offered by, for example, religious representatives. 

SLD. Yes, there is a difference and there are ongoing discussions as to how these fit into the Curriculum for Excellence.

SGP. Some schools already give parents the right to withdraw their children from classes that would impose a religious view, and Greens too do distinguish between the study of religion as part of broader teaching of comparative religion, ethics and philosophy on one hand, and overt religious practice on the other.

SSP. Yes, we support education about the major world beliefs, including specific religious and non-religious views. We do not support religious instruction, assemblies or compulsory attendance at visits by religious representatives. The current school Religious and Moral Education departments could do this. The Religious, Moral and Philosophical Studies curriculum could also be modified to ensure a wide and fair coverage of views.

SC. They are separate, but interconnected. One is the study of religious systems, beliefs and philosophies. The other is related to the appropriate "thought for the day" which can have a religious or non-religious theme.

SLP. No comment.

6. Does your party consider that ‘Intelligent Design’ should be part of the science curriculum?

SGovt. Intelligent Design is not specifically addressed in the draft experiences and outcomes for science which were released by Learning and Teaching Scotland in September 2007. We have no plans to change this.

SLD. I think children are better served by there being open and free exploration of different philosophies and theories. Dogma or indoctrination should not be part of the curriculum.

SGP. Our manifesto does not have a reference to the fairly recent phenomenon of ‘Intelligent Design’ teaching. But my view is that no school should be allowed to teach this mythology under the guise of it being appropriate to a science curriculum.

SSP. There is no scientific support for ‘Intelligent Design’ outside a small section of fundamentalist Christian and Islamic ‘scientists’.  Therefore, any reference to ‘Intelligent Design’ should be confined to religious education lessons, along with other people’s origin myths.
Any attempt to introduce ‘Intelligent Design’ into the Science curriculum should be vigorously opposed. At present such anti-scientific views are gaining inroads in England, through big business sponsorship, particularly by Sir Peter Vardy. This is a particularly pernicious effect of the current drive to open up directly schools to business interests.

SC. The science curriculum should provide pupils with a knowledge of scientific fact and a wide range of scientific theory. It should not adhere to one view.

SLP. No comment.

7. What is your party’s view on the existence of and/or increase in Faith Schools? If you support Faith Schools would you also support Humanist Schools?

SGovt. We are always willing to listen to views and representations about the issue of faith schools. It would be the responsibility of the relevant council to consider and respond to such representations.
The Education Act (Scotland) 1980 gives each council the power to establish a new school for any denomination or faith if it is satisfied that it is needed in response to representations, or on its own initiative. The council has the duty to consider such requests but does not have to agree to them. We have not been informed by any council about their interest in establishing a Humanist school.
The council should take into account the general principle in law that children should be educated in line with their parents’ wishes but would have to balance that with the need to provide a suitable education and cost to the public purse. Under the 1980 Act, all schools run by local authorities are required to be open to pupils of all denominations and faiths.
We support councils in this choice, and openly welcome the positive contribution that denominational education can make to Scottish education in shaping individuals’ identity in our modern Scottish society.

SLD. The very real question of keeping the state and faith apart in a multi-faith society is an issue of lively debate.  As Deputy First Minister, Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen was the first senior politician in Scotland publicly to question the existence and expansion of faith schools, and Liberal Democrat MP Dr Evan Harris has long been a vocal campaigner against the concept, arguing that separating children on the basis of their private beliefs has no place in modern society. Nevertheless, not all members of the party share this view. 
I recognise the popularity and success of many faith schools. Many are oversubscribed; many achieve higher than average attainment scores.  However, at a time when the spectre of sectarianism still looms large over Scotland, Liberal Democrats do not share First Minister Alex Salmond’s desire to entrench more religious division in education by expanding the faith school network. It is the role of the state to encourage integration and tolerance, not promote religious apartheid.
The existence of faith schools is a product of Scotland's history; I do not believe that the current arrangement would be introduced in the 21st century. It is a difficult and very emotive issue. The challenge to us all is to promote co-operation, understanding, joint working and other arrangements that help bridge divides without losing the importance of individual faiths and ethos.  Faith should not be something that sets up barriers.

SGP. Where faith schools are concerned the Scottish Green Party would not countenance an increased expenditure for faith schools of any denomination, and we would in fact withdraw funding from those faith schools presently existing that were not prepared to be absorbed into a general secular state system operating as set out above.

SSP. In Scotland, the main example of faith schools historically has, of course, been the state-supported Catholic schools. These arose because of the undoubted discrimination that Catholics, particularly those from an Irish background, faced in Scotland.  Nowadays Scotland’s Muslims often face similar discrimination.
There are two approaches to this. The first is to accept that discrimination is a permanent part of our society, and therefore to argue for separate provision as a form of protection for the particular group/religion discriminated against. 
Sometimes an appeal is made to the right of all religions and even humanists to have their own schools. We believe this to be divisive. Furthermore, if you accept such an argument, why should there not be separate residential areas and reserved jobs?  We have seen this in Northern Ireland and it is not a road anyone should want to travel down.
Instead, the SSP supports a second approach, which is to conduct united campaigns to end discrimination itself. Part of such a struggle is to create as many arenas as possible where people from different multi-ethnic/religious backgrounds can mix, e.g. work, shared residential areas and schools.
However, this also means recognising that we do not currently live in an officially secular society. There is an established Church of England, and a semi-established Church of Scotland. The ban on any monarch being able to marry a Catholic is one striking example of this remaining institutionalised sectarianism.  It gives political succour to very unpleasant, and hate-filled, loyalist groups in Northern Ireland, and parts of Scotland. Although the SSP is a republican party, and has no wish to condemn anyone to a married life within one of the most dysfunctional families around, we still support the repeal of the Act of Succession.
The existing non-faith schools are often far from secular. Some still give preference to the local Church of Scotland minister, when it comes to school visits.  A genuinely secular education system has still to be achieved.
Furthermore, any campaign to end existing Catholic schools should not be about closing down these schools, but opening them fully up to the wider community.

SC. If there is one essential element in the provision of a good education it is the recognition of the diverse needs of individual pupils and therefore a recognition that schools should reflect this diversity, whether this be through the provision of specialist schools, different faith schools, a variety of pre-school establishments, or schools which merely reflect the different urban and rural traditions of the different parts of Scotland. In diversity there is creativity and in creativity there is almost always the energy and the commitment to strive for a better school.

SLP. No comment.

8. What is your party’s view on the concept of secular schools that would encourage pupils to study the world’s religions but exclude religious practice in all its forms?

SGovt. Scotland is a nation whose people hold a wide range of beliefs. When planning for religious and moral education, account must be taken of the school’s communities and the context in which the children and young people learn.
The new curriculum for religious and moral education will be flexible enough to enable schools to explore debate and discuss different viewpoints reflective of and independent of any religious belief, values and practices and traditions.

SLD. Education offers an opportunity not only to address religious identity and cultural identity and to challenge attitudes and discrimination, but to put those things in the context of all the other forms of discrimination that remain prevalent in our society. I would like to see atheism, agnosticism and humanism taught as part of compulsory religious, philosophical and moral education to encourage students to discuss and debate ethical dilemmas.
It is fundamentally important that people learn to converse with those of different faiths and think critically about their own. Dropping religion from the syllabus, or banning the expression of religious beliefs from schools, won't make religious strife go away.
Religious observance and education needs to be developed in a way which reflects and understands Scotland’s ever-increasing diversity. It should be sensitive to our traditions and origins and should seek to reflect these but it must equally be sensitive to individual spiritual needs and beliefs, whether these come from a faith or non-faith perspective.

SGP. (Answered in previous questions above)

SSP. We would very much support this view.

SC. Scottish Conservatives have no problem with either - in our view it is a matter for the schools and parents.

SLP. No comment.

9. Does your party support the proposal that religious laws (e.g. Sharia, Judaic) can or should be incorporated into Scottish & UK law?

SGovt. We have no plans to incorporate Sharia Law into Scots Law. 
We respect and welcome cultural diversity in Scotland. This is reflected by the development of all government policy with regard to different cultural needs. Our laws are based on universal values of equality, respect and Human Rights - applicable to every person in Scotland.

SLD. This is not a proposal that Liberal Democrats support. One of the basic tenets of a liberal democracy is that we are all equal before the law, and we all accept the same legal obligations. If groups begin to be treated differently, the glue that binds society together will unravel.  There is a huge difference between respecting peoples’ right to follow their own beliefs and allowing them to excuse themselves from the rule of law.

SGP. The proposal that Sharia and Judaic law should be incorporated into Scottish and UK law is preposterous and cannot possibly be countenanced. We have spent at least two centuries cleaning our legal system of overt religious bias. The introduction of Sharia law would be peculiarly regressive and would represent a full frontal attack on women’s rights in particular.

SSP. We are strongly opposed to such ideas.  All laws should be based on universal human rights.  People individually should have the right to adopt the particular beliefs and practices of a religion/belief of their choice, provided it does not interfere with the rights of others.  However, there should be no state backing for any particular laws based on these beliefs and practices.
Furthermore, such proposals would often result in the state’s recognition of religious leaders who are not necessarily representative of those in the wider community who belong to their faith.  If there were to such legally-backed sanctions, this could result in the persecution of individual members of that community, who are perceived to have broken religious laws or codes.  Indeed, individuals from any particular religious background should have the right to appeal to the state’s universal laws, against the unwanted imposition of particular religious or ethnic laws and codes.
The SSP is particularly firm upon advocating women’s rights.  Those religious representatives, who push for state backing for their own laws have an extremely poor record in this field.  Whether it be the Christian supremacism found in the USA, or the Islamic supremacism found in Saudi Arabia, giving such religious groups more scope to impose their beliefs on others, does not present a very pleasant prospect for humanity.

SC. No

SLP. No comment.

10. Does your party support the suggestion that institutions such as hospitals, schools, universities, prisons and the armed forces should have humanist ‘chaplains’ as well as religious ones?

SGovt. In general terms, it is for local bodies and organisations to decide how best to meet the needs of local people. For example, it is for NHS boards to ensure that they're providing services in hospitals which best meet the needs of their patients. Similarly, our universities are autonomous institutions and these issues are rightly matters for their governing bodies to consider. Universities are sensitive to meeting the needs of significant groups in what is a very diverse student population. It is for this reason that many of them cater for the needs of not only Christian students but Muslim students and other minority ethnic or religious groups. If there were to be a demand from a humanist cohort within the staff or student bodies for humanist chaplains, we are sure that our universities would take wish to this into account.
In relation to our prisons, the Scottish Prison Service will always do what is possible and reasonable to respond to their needs. Should the need be identified and appropriate for a Humanist Chaplain, that is something SPS would consider.

SLD. Liberal Democrats recognise that chaplains can contribute enormously to encouraging and promoting religious understanding and acceptance, but traditional denominational or religious models of chaplaincy do not fit into the spiritual plurality of contemporary Scotland. Chaplaincy should deliver and facilitate moral, pastoral and welfare support for all, across denominations and for people of faith or of no declared faith.  Institutions must make proper provision for the spiritual needs of Scotland’s diverse population, and chaplaincy models need to continue to be developed and shaped to fit the changing spiritual climate within Scotland. 

SGP. The principal function of chaplains in schools, hospitals, prisons and the armed forces are twofold; to provide gentle advice and counselling for anybody who might need it, and specific religious support to members of their own religious communities. It would be entirely right to appoint Humanist chaplains on the same basis.

SSP. We don’t support the notion of having any state-supported chaplains, but if people in particular institutions wanted access to religious or humanist representatives they should have it.

SC. Scottish Conservatives believe this is a matter for hospitals, schools, universities, prisons and the armed forces to decide

SLP. No comment.

11. Does your party envisage Scotland becoming a secular state?

SGovt. Scotland is a modern, diverse multi-cultural society. We value our strong Christian tradition and the increasing diversity of faiths and religions which we now embrace. We believe in a Scotland where all people have the right to feel understood and respected. With rights come responsibilities and we can only achieve that respect and understanding if we start from the point of accepting other people’s right to be different from ourselves and to be heard.

SLD. As a Liberal I believe fervently in the separation of religion and politics, the separation of theology and secular power. 
Although issues of faith and doctrine have played a central role in Scotland’s turbulent history, Scottish society today is increasingly secular in character.  Scotland has a relatively high proportion of persons, 28 per cent of the population, who regard themselves as belonging to 'no religion', and this figures is as high as 49 per cent in the 25 to 34 age group. 
It is clear that Scotland’s younger generations are learning the lessons of our history, and do not want a Scotland that continues to be blighted by ugly sectarian rivalry.
I affirm the actual and potential benefits of religion to the lives of our citizens. I acknowledge the beneficent effect that adherence to religion by the citizenry may have on society.  However, I believe it is in the interest of organised religion and the proper working of democracy in this country that both should be self-governing. 
In modern society we face a triad of tensions between the rights-based claims of the state seeking to preserve unity, the religious and other groups seeking to preserve their particularity and the individual seeking freedom of expression and identity. It is the challenge of democracy to equilibrate that triad.  I believe that difficult task is not helped by the existence of a state Church.
It is vital that we develop a stronger understanding of what our collective citizenship means, and how we can build that shared commitment into our social and political institutions.
Liberal Democrats believe in a country with an equal voice and equal place for everyone, whatever their views on religion. To this end, I believe our creed should not be secularism but liberalism - freedom, democracy, peace, tolerance and openness.
The resolution of the Scottish Parliament in December 1999 concerning the Act of Settlement 1701 affirmed the Parliament’s view that Scottish society must not disbar participation in any aspect of our national life on the ground of religion. That is a duty we should not shirk.

SGP. The Scottish Green Party believes Scotland should be a secular state. It should be possible to do this without substantially denying the huge contribution that Christianity has made to our culture, but at the same time recognisingthat Scotland has been riven by religious wars between various branches of the Christian community for centuries. In a nation that contains an increasing diversity of religious beliefs we should all have the protections of a secular framework of legislation and practice, whether we personally are religious or not.

SSP. Yes, and the sooner the better.

SC. No

SLP. No comment.