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Speaker: Roger Redondo.  Chair: Jack Gold

A fine talk from Neuroscientist Roger Redondo, HSS Edinburgh Group  Committee Member, and ex-President of Edinburgh University Humanist Association. Roger's talk was aided by OHP, laptop presentation including video and various other imaginative aids. I estimate around 90 people turned up, a large gathering by any standards.

Roger kicked off by asking us to memorise different objects hidden around the hall under cups to later test our capacity to remember.  I had the impression he was a little surprised that most folks DID remember where the toy pineapple and other items were to be found, and not just the £20 note.

If we ever had any doubts about the complexity of the human brain they were soon dispelled. Roger clearly explained what goes on inside the brain, how and why the brain functions, what makes us human and how it can all so easily break down.

Comparisons were made with other creatures, whose brains are simple compared to our own but are absolutely right for the correct functioning of those creatures in their particular environment  - fewer brain cells for such creatures would prevent proper functioning; too many more brain cells would be too 'expensive' a strategy.

Audience volunteers were connected to each other by coloured ropes, from wrist to wrist, that were then selectively disconnected to demonstrate the cooperative and cumulative learning process of brain cells, a process that results in progressively successful human behaviour.  This was a great demo and a lot of fun.

Two kinds of brain cells deserved special attention from Roger. 'Place-cells' help creatures know where they are and how to navigate successfully. A firework display of sparking neurons happens every step we take (at least on simulations!), some neurons apparently  'recognising' particular locations and working collectively with other cells to navigate spaces or avoid obstructions.  Successful Place-cells are rewarded; unemployed or navigationally challenged cells drop away.  'Mirror cells' appear to help us empathise with other humans as, through our senses, we recognise body language, facial expression, moods etc.  This may even be the keystone of consciousness according to Roger.  Anyone familiar with David Chalmers' 'Hard Problem' that differentiates human self-knowledge, subjectivity, self-consciousness from HOW the mind and body works, could be forgiven for considering Mirror cells a possible solution.  After all mirror cells apparently help us empathise with others, therefore why not the mother of all empathies Roger asks - with the person we spend most time with - ourselves? Could this not explain consciousness?  If, that is, the same system is in operation?

Roger demonstrates video footage of robots benefiting from what we know about brain cells - robots that learn a kind of spatial awareness, and a kind of self or bodily awareness that apparently aids its navigation - or at least it is meant to - their attempts to walk or crawl seemed quite haphazard.  Roger hints that the more complex such robots become the more species-like they will become.  Perhaps they could even pose a threat, he ponders, were they able to reproduce (manufacture other versions of themselves) I wonder.

My comments, to finalise (if I may)

Sorry Roger, I disagree about the robots thing.  Complexity of transistors may simulate human complexity but inside that robot machine it is DARK.  Compared to our subjective minds, lit with creativity and qualitative perception, these machines will always be artefacts made by humans to mimic humans, but they will never be human - or even a parallel 'species'.  

Put more simply, I love the smell of a rose and so do most people. We know what each other means when we describe the smell of a rose to each other.  But words fail the actual sensation we each get as individuals - the real joy is somehow special to us like the smell of coffee, a great piece of music or a lovely sunset.   My point, finally (!) is this; Roger, you can build a robot to appear to appreciate those subjective sensations, the ones that make us human, and that will be a marvellous achievement - but a robot will never smell a rose or appreciate music as we do - it will always be a zombie and always be dark inside.

(Feel free to disagree!)

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click on the image above to see full size version

This is just a bit of Humanist, humorous fun really, but also with a serious side. Just for a moment, suspend your disbelief - Edinburgh District Council has agreed to celebrate Darwin 200 big time. OK, they haven't really, however this image represents what Edinburgh might look like if they did. See how many references to Darwin and evolution you can spot in the image above. To see all the detail, click on the image and view the full size version. (Image created by Jack Gold, Edinburgh Group)

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Glasgow group Summer Outing news and the programme for 2008/2009 is well in place.

It is often said that organising humanists is like trying to herd cats. In hippy parlance cats are cool! The Glasgow Group, while taking its normal summer break, managed to herd enough members onto a coach for the summer outing on August 17th.

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Camperdown Picnic

Iffy though the week’s weather was (that’s an understatement, Thursday saw a veritable deluge in St Andrews!) the sun shone brightly on a small group of Dundee Humanists last Sunday as they enjoyed their picnic at Camperdown Park.

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Humanist Promotion Dundee

For most of us who ‘volunteered’, yesterday’s Dundee city centre promotion of Humanism was a venture into unknown territory.   We are relieved to report that no eggs were thrown, and that many leaflets were distributed.   In fact, our only problem lay in hanging on to the gazebo when the occasional gust of wind had us all grabbing the nearest pole to prevent the whole thing taking off up the High Street.   That little bit of excitement aside, the day went off pretty smoothly, and it was a tired, but satisfied little group that packed everything away at 4pm.   

What was achieved?   Well, we might get a partial answer to this if membership enquiries increase in the coming weeks, but that will not, I think, reflect the overall success of the venture.   Our reason for being there was the belief that although many people may have heard the term ‘humanism’, they might be hard pressed to describe what it means.   This day in Dundee gave our members a chance to give away literature and to chat to people about their attitudes to the things we hold to be of benefit to the human race.   The Amsterdam Declaration was massively helpful in quickly outlining just what we stood for, and those who stopped to speak were mostly in agreement with its approach to life and the human condition.   In discussing our Manifesto, it also became apparent that many people were positive about our stance on euthanasia.   

However, that is not to say that all conversations were held on common ground; some lively discussions took place.   One chap declared he wished there were more people going for humanist ceremonies because he, as a minister, was fed up with the non-religious asking for his services.   This particular conversation ranged from the atheism of Nazism and Communist Russia and the acknowledged atrocities carried out in the name of religion, to secular v. religious schools and the mixing of church and state.   In another case, a young mother seemed to welcome, indeed was intent on discussing the issues of religion v. secularism despite the increasingly vocal demands of her children for attention.   She seemed hungry for this debate.   She was not alone.   Some people even approached us of their own volition!   A young father, who was in a hurry when first approached, came back and said that he now had some time, so please tell him about Humanism.   We had a Muslim who stopped, heard me out, and left having imparted the message that everybody should believe in God.   No surprise there.   Another local man told me, en passant, that salvation lay in Jesus, “the way, the truth and the light”.   Three young Ghanaians traded the use of our pen for an outline of Humanism.   

I hope this gives you get the flavour of the day.   Some of the conversations with the more intrepid were intense, but no blows were exchanged, and parting was always with a smile.   Sam’s guitar music and singing of popular songs from the 1960’s right up to date added greatly to the relaxed atmosphere, and entertained us all.   The children also liked the balloons bearing the message for both them and their parents;  “We’re a' Jock Tamson’s bairns”.

Frances McDonnell
Hon. Secretary, Dundee Group

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